What's the least worst anime?

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:27 am

Cyborg 009 is also a Shonen anime. It's not really a meaningful descriptor other than to say it's shows mainly intended for young boys. Don't go into the shows looking to pigeon hole them based on their genre because it's a really broad genre.

rampaging-poet · Post by **rampaging-poet** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:44 am

I just skimmed the entire 24-page anime thread and reviewed the list of anime on my harddrive. Many of them are probably "too anime," but there are a few I can definitely recommend. Some recommendations will be longer than others.

Dennou Coil takes place in a near-future city encompassed by an augmented reality network. The main characters are children that spend much of their time exploring the network's eccentricities. Meanwhile, the corporation that runs the network is increasing security and artifacts of the network's original form continue to surface and wreak havoc. Thematically, it's the end of an era, the taming of the frontier, and the main characters' coming of age story.

House of Five Leaves is a short series about an out-of-work swordsman that falls in with a group of kidnappers.

Level E is a comedy in which aliens live among us Men in Black style. It's mostly about an alien prince trolling everyone he comes in contact with.

Macross Frontier takes place on a colony fleet that gets attacked by giant space bugs. The main character is Alto Saotome (western name order), a civilian stunt pilot that ends up in a giant robot after one of the bugs kills the original pilot. He becomes part of the secret mercenary group that provides most of the real protection to the fleet. The two plot-critical love interests are Sheryl Nome, an idol singer stranded by the attack, and Ranka Lee, the amnesiac adopted daughter of Alto's immediate superior. Macross Frontier includes many elements common to the Macross franchise. For example, music is integral to the story and the giant robots use lots and lots of missiles. Also, the B plot of the entire series is a criticism of the idol singer industry.

Mushishi is about a man that wanders fantasy Japan solving problems caused by supernatural beings called Mushi. The Mushi are somewhere between spirits and animals, and they often prey on conceptual things like "darkness" or "experience." It's very laid back and almost entirely episodic. Also, it has a very good dub which is available on Netflix.

Shiki is about a modern-day Japanese village being taken over by vampires. Neither side is stupid, and the vampires begin with a distinct advantage because nobody believes vampires exist. Some of the characters are a little flat, but it's still pretty well-executed.

Steins;Gate involves time travel. With minimal spoilers, the first half is "What can our time machine do?" and the second half is "Oh crap, that's what our time machine did." Despite some standard anime character interaction, it's pretty good. I think there's a few places where the clues needed to figure out what happened aren't given, but it parallels the main character's shock when he learns things.

erik · Post by **erik** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:22 am

deanruel87 wrote: Samurai Jack I actually have watched a fair number of. I guess I didn't know if that was anime. I had no real problems with it. If I watched it 12 years ago I would have probably loved Samurai Jack but as a full grown man it's just not for me.

Meh. It's a cartoon. Samurai Jack is a western cartoon but I think the style is distinctive enough that I don't want to lump it in with western animation. I don't know how Samurai Jack is diminished with age, but it does fail to have the serial plot progression you were looking for tho. It's basically a monster of the week series.

I'd also suggest The Irresponsible Captain Tylor.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:47 am

Oh, Eureka Seven is really a good one too. It's about a young boy named Renton who grows up wanting to join the legendary mercenary company Gekkostate, and when a young girl by the name of Eureka brings the original LFO (it's the world's name for giant robot don't worry about what it stands for) the Nirvash to his grandfather for a tune up she draws the attention of the military and sparks a fire fight in which Renton discovers an affinity with the robot which seem to exhibit a mind and personality, allowing only those it likes to pilot it. After the battle he is invited to join Gekkostate.

It's a really fun watch that both embraces an subverts a bunch of the tropes you'd expect from this kind of thing. Renton is a bratty kid who doesn't know anything, but (being not shinji) quickly matures and becomes more grounded than a lot of the adults, Gekkostate does fight the man and save the day, but is made up of hyper competent, bitter, jackasses who would gladly do almost anything for a buck.

Moribito: Guardian of the Spirit is pretty cool too, it's about a body guard named Balsa (a foreigner in a great empire), in the past she past took eight lives and has sworn an oath of honor to save the same number of lives. She is hired to spirit away the young prince of of the kingdom, a boy with a mysterious connection to a water spirit which is said to have the power to destroy the kingdom. Distraught over the idea of her child being put to death the empress hires Balsa to become his protector and surrogate mother. It's a little slow at times but over all very engaging.

Trinity Blood is great, it follows priest Able Nightroad a member of the Vatican in a world where vampires have reappeared and formed their own country. Able is a gentle soul with the power to transform in to a terrifying Crusnik a vampire that feeds upon other vampires. A member of AX a special arm of the Vatican that works to ensure the survival of humanity and continued peace between humans and vampires.

Cynic · Post by **Cynic** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:13 am

Moribito is one of my all time faves.

If you like style, boogiepop phantom is pretty good. BP is a little more surreal than Samurai Champloo was.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:20 am

Oh, and another thing. Most of these anime can be gotten, on line, from reputable sources. I know I linked to a youtube play list of of Cyborg 009, but that's because you actually can't get that from a reputable source, every single anime I just named you can stream on Funimation's site, in HD, for free, via hulu. You can also watch most of them on Crunchyroll again for free, as well as a ton of others, and Crunchy Roll actually supports the industry unlike other sites that provide anmimu. It's not perfect but the Manga and Anime industries are genuinely dying in no small part because a depressing majority of anime fans don't actually support the companies that foot the bill for the expensive and time consuming work of animating and drawing these cartoons and comics. So disable your ad block and mute the video if you've seen all the adds a billion times, the ad companies don't actually care if you watch the ads so long as you know what they're advertising and it sticks in your head.

Schleiermacher · Post by **Schleiermacher** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:50 am

So except for the filler-riffic last two episodes (and without going into End of Evangelion which I haven't seen yet) what's so bad about NGE?

Overall I thought it was a great show.
The one thing that annoyed me was the way everyone acted as if the choice to pilot EVA was just a personal issue for Shinji and not, y'know, a matter of life and death for all of humanity, but that kind of myopia is pretty common in anime from what I've seen.

Wiseman · Post by **Wiseman** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:02 am

I don't watch much anime nowadays but fairy tail is good mindless fun .

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:03 am

Every single character is either despicable; like shinji's father, or insufferable; like Asuka, or both; like Shinji. Unlike Renton from Eruaka 7 Shinji never sacks up and accepts his responsibility. The show has good fight scenes and an engaging world but both take a back seat to whiny navel gazing and terrible pointless interactions between the horrible unlikeable character. Oh, and the ending is a goddamn war crime filled with horrible, worthless, misused religious imagery and mind fuckery solely for the sake of shock value and pretense.

Schleiermacher · Post by **Schleiermacher** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:13 am

Well, I guess I don't mind if the people in my entertainment are despicable as long as they're entertaining. And Gendo Ikari is certainly entertaining.

Shinji is a self-centered little twit, yes, but in fairness to him we're talking about a 12-year-old boy who wasn't entirely mentally stable to begin with. Considering the pressure he's under and all the shit that happens to him I find it hard to judge him all that harshly.

Asuka, likewise, is a teenaged girl who's completely screwed up in the head. So it's really not strange that she's insufferable. In fact I kind of liked her; I found it refreshing to see a "hot-shot jerk rival" character who wasn't all hype and tough talk for once.

phlapjackage · Post by **phlapjackage** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:19 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lagoon

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:27 am

Gendo Ikari is a child molester. I'm not even kidding it is HEAVILY implied that he molests Rei.

Shinji may be twelve but he never improves at all, it is understandable for a child to behave childishly, to an extent. I do not mind the protagonist of, say, Zone of the Enders because while he acts like a child he fucking sacks up and gets shit done. Shinji has to be forced to help people at every turn. No, he didn't choose to be the last hope of humanity but he is and at some point he needed to grow the fuck up and take charge.

Asuka might have been bearable if she wasn't all hype and tough talk. But she is. Her crowning moment of awesome is tearing through helpless legions of tanks and planes in her humanoid WMD and then the moment an actual threat appears she she dies without having any effect on them like the useless [EDITED] she is.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:46 am

The newer NGE is slightly better . .
Not good enough for me to enjoy or recommend, but at least it's not as stupid as the old NGE.
The old one was made when the author was deeply depressed and taking psychopharmaka and it shows.
The new one he remade because he hates the old one and now is not depressed and taking psychopharmaka.
Gendo molesting rei is at least once actually shown on screen if i remember correctly.

I have watched dennou coil and can recommend that at least.
If you like Mystery Anime give Hyouka a look see for example.
Or maybe Dusk Maiden of Amnesia. These are both beautifully drawn as well.
For Space Opera i can recommend watching Moretsu Pirates despite it having the cardinal sin of all anime.

What, exactly, do you enjoy?

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:55 am

Me? Like, go back and read the thread, I've been recommending great amime left and right. 009, and Trinity Blood, Cowboy Bebop, Moribito, and Eureka 7, I endorsed recommendations of both Yu Yu Hakusho and Ruroni Kenshin. There's a ton of great anime out there. Just, Evangelion is not one of them. Although I admit to being less familiar with the remake.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:02 am

I can't really say anthing to that, because it's been years since i saw any of these and i have not seen cyborg 009 yet at all.

And no, full on agreement here.
The only way i can watch NGE is by fast forwarding between the fighting scenes. And even then you still have to deal with the crybabies . .
The newer one eases up on that and introduces a new fanservice element.

Schleiermacher · Post by **Schleiermacher** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:05 am

Gendo Ikari is a child molester.

Yes, yes he is. He's a real piece of work. He's also not at any time presented as a sympathetic character so what's your point?

And are we talking about the same Asuka?

(Spoilered for series details)

She improvises well to fight the sixth Angel in her debut episode despite being improperly equipped -although she causes a lot of collateral damage, that's true of almost every fight in the series.
She single-handedly defeats the eighth Angel in the volcano, despite the mission at that point being completely FUBARed and Misato's complete disregard for safety procedures.
She makes and successfully executes the plan to destroy the ninth Angel.

There is a lot of hype and tough talk too, I won't deny that, and after she's defeated by the fourteenth Angel she loses her confidence and is pretty much useless thereafter, but she does have some skills.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:06 am

Well... allow me to quote verbatim a line from Trinity Blood. "Initating resident tactical program. Genocide mode. Selected. Combat: engaged."

So, if you've ever wondered what Robocop would be like if he had a "genocide mode" um, look no further.

OH! Fucking Trigun! That's another great one.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:19 am

Yes, Trigun is a great one.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:35 am

Schleiermacher wrote:
Gendo Ikari is a child molester.
Yes, yes he is. He's a real piece of work. He's also not at any time presented as a sympathetic character so what's your point?

And are we talking about the same Asuka?

(Spoilered for series details)

She improvises well to fight the sixth Angel in her debut episode despite being improperly equipped -although she causes a lot of collateral damage, that's true of almost every fight in the series.
She single-handedly defeats the eighth Angel in the volcano, despite the mission at that point being completely FUBARed and Misato's complete disregard for safety procedures.
She makes and successfully executes the plan to destroy the ninth Angel.

There is a lot of hype and tough talk too, I won't deny that, and after she's defeated by the fourteenth Angel she loses her confidence and is pretty much useless thereafter, but she does have some skills.

So? he's a horrible bastard and we're supposed to be rooting for him as the good guy.

As for Asuka's "successes"

(Spoilered for series details (and I just copied this from Schleiermacher's post))

She improvises well to fight the sixth Angel in her debut episode despite being improperly equipped -although she causes a lot of collateral damage, that's true of almost every fight in the series.
You mean that fight she almost lost due to her stupidity and recklessness and only won because of Misato's quick thinking and cleverness?

She single-handedly defeats the eighth Angel in the volcano, despite the mission at that point being completely FUBARed and Misato's complete disregard for safety procedures.
You mean that fight she only wins because Shinji explained how expansion and contraception due to temperature works?

She makes and successfully executes the plan to destroy the ninth Angel.
Oh yes, her plan of, "hey Rei, go climb back down and throw Shinji a gun (a weapon which almost never fucking works on Evas by the way) and I'll stand in front of the acid until Shinji can shoot it." Truly she is a master tactician.

There is a lot of hype and tough talk too, I won't deny that, and after she's defeated by the fourteenth Angel she loses her confidence and is pretty much useless thereafter, but she does have some skills.

Asuka is a braying jackass who is all talk and no walk. Her victories, as few as there are, are achieved through no merit of her own and based entirely on dumb luck and the skill and intellect of her allies, who she treats like shit by the way.

Schleiermacher · Post by **Schleiermacher** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:21 am

So? he's a horrible bastard and we're supposed to be rooting for him as the good guy.

What? No, we're not. He's a deeply selfish man whose only redeeming feature is that he's helping protect humanity from the Angels (and even that for his own reasons).

The Asuka rigmarole:

In order:
- What "stupidity and recklessness"? Credit for the win goes to Misato, certainly, but with no ranged weapons, no amphibious capabilities and no solid ground to fight on the fact that she was able to put up a fight at all in those circumstances speaks well of her.
- Knowing a piece of physics and being able to apply it to macGuyver a fight-ending attack when you have seconds left to live are not synonymous. The latter is, in fact, pretty impressive.
- I didn't say it was tactical brilliance, but it was her plan and her victory. Without her the other two would have failed to come up with a plan in time, their EVAs would have run out of power and everyone would have died.

Asuka does treat her allies like shit and her role is, in the end, that of the jerk rival who exists to be shown up by the main character, but she is more credible than many other such characters by dint of actually being fairly competent.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:37 am

No, we are, because he is not just fighting for humanity's survival, he's the only one fighting for humanity's survival. When the UN calls him out for being fucking bastard, you're supposed to side with him because he is the only one capable of getting shit done.

-Ranged weapons are useless against Angles anyway, and Misato fucking told Asuka her Eva would be useless underwater but Asuka ignored her, because Asuka is a braying jackass. If she were actually the big badass she claimed to be she wouldn't have dropped her knife and actually been effectual against the Angle in the initial engagement in which she had the platform of the carrier to use
-Not only would her royal thickness not have had the knowledge to pull it off without Shinji (and you know you've got problems when you're making Shinji look good by the way) but she was extremely lucky that her plan of "destroy the only thing keeping me from melting in the lava over the enemy even worked instead of, you know, her coolant immediately cooling the lava into stone on contact and being completely ineffectual.
-The fact is, I don't believe you. Rei may be emotionally detached and uninteresting, but she is definitely more intelligent level-headed than Asuka (both traits that make a better tactician) she would have figured something out.

She really, really, isn't.

DSMatticus · Post by **DSMatticus** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:08 pm

ITT criticism that is terrible. No, seriously. Let's just gloss over dean's crazy "there are things that happened in the first few episodes I did not have immediate explanations for, fuck this shit" rant and look at darkmaster bitching about NGE, because NGE is a very easy target. What have we got? "NGE is bad because none of the characters are likable." No shit.

NGE is an anime about a bunch of total fucking failures who do not know how to cope with their emotional problems (shit like loneliness and insecurity) being presented with armageddon that happens to come in the form of (almost literal) heaven. The final boss is just the god of Tang offering to absolve them of all responsibility for their fucked up lives and give them the unconditional acceptance of and unity with every human being who has ever lived. Yes, the show's climax is seriously a bunch of fuck-ups trying to decide whether or not they want to just give up on their lives entirely and let Rei hook them up to an IV drip of all their unfulfilled emotional needs OR go back to stumbling through their shitty lives in the hope that one day, after enough struggling and enough failure, they will find a way to make it work.

Shinji and Asuka have to be failures, because the contrast between Instrumentality and a successful life would not be the least bit narratively interesting. Shinji and Asuka have to be cowards, because if perseverance were a part of their characters then giving them the option to give up would not be the least bit narratively interesting. Most of Shinji and Asuka's growth during the series is negative, because you are supposed to be watching them break the fuck down in preparation for the series' conclusion. Also because suffering.

There is a lot to complain about in NGE (especially the execution of the ending, Jesus fucking Christ), but "the characters are all shitty" is just a stupid thing to say. You're missing the point by a mile and a hop.

darkmaster wrote:No, we are, because he is not just fighting for humanity's survival, he's the only one fighting for humanity's survival. When the UN calls him out for being fucking bastard, you're supposed to side with him because he is the only one capable of getting shit done.

Bwuh? Seele is not fighting for humanity's survival. That is a lie. Or maybe a self-delusion. They are fighting to cause Third Impact in a manner they control for their own benefit. Gendo is not fighting for humanity's survival. He's not even fighting for Seele. That is also a lie he tells Seele. He is fighting to cause Third Impact in a manner he controls for his own benefit. No one who knows what's going on at Seele has humanity's wellbeing at heart - they just want to bring about Tangification in a way such that they win. Something. Somehow. It's honestly not that clear.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:42 pm

Fuck you DMS. Just because a criticism is blisteringly obvious doesn't mean it's not a valid criticism. It's not like Evangelion couldn't have avoided being a clusterfuck of terrible decisions by just ignoring the characters for the most part and being a monster of the day robot fightin' anime or by exploring the world more. Credit where it's due, NGE has really good fight scenes, they are just spot on, the animation is fluid and engaging, the choreography is fast and never misses a chance to do something over the top and impressive, this is pushed to the back ground so we can have more Shinji whining about how much is sucks that he's mech pilot Jesus.

The setting is really interesting you have all these strange, alien, creatures with unfathomable motives attacking humanity and driving civilization to the brink of destruction. That gets pushed to the side in favor of Gendo molesting a young girl or Shinji masturbating to a comatose Asuka.

I can see why you think I'm going for low hanging fruit here, but the fact is the characters are what the show wants to be judged on, it's what it focuses on to the detriment of everything else, and the characters are just terrible, in every way. The lucky ones are non-entities because anyone who gets any characterization is probably going to end up being a serial rapist or something.

And you can shove your fucking platitudes about how they have to be terrible and broken for their progression through the show to the climax and how it's actually not a problem that there are exactly 0 people in the cast anyone watching can relate to because that's totally point, right up your ass. That might hold water if the character had a progression, but Shinji and Asuna are both static characters. If they started out as upstanding human beings, or hell started out with redeeming qualities at all, and the pressure and stress broke them down as the show went on, then yeah, you might be right, but they didn't. They start as shitty, terrible people, and end as the same shitty, terrible people. The show did not earn its symbolism, it didn't earn its ending. There is something to be said for being ambitious in a project, but I will be fucked if I let you defend the characters in this monstrosity because "no really they were supposed to be horrible you're just missing the point".

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:25 pm

darkmaster wrote:That might hold water if the character had a progression, but Shinji and Asuna are both static characters. If they started out as upstanding human beings, or hell started out with redeeming qualities at all, and the pressure and stress broke them down as the show went on, then yeah, you might be right, but they didn't. They start as shitty, terrible people, and end as the same shitty, terrible people.

I'll admit it has been a really long time since I saw the show, but I think this is basically false. Shinji starts out as a reluctant kid who nevertheless steps up when the chips are down, then becomes overly attached to his combat role, and only then has an emotional collapse and becomes useless. It's a depressing arc, but it definitely is an arc.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:42 pm

He fights, but I wouldn't really say he "steps up" he pretty much sees himself as THE victim the person who is suffering most in the whole world because of Armageddon, and you get the sense that he was always terrible he just never had the opportunity for as much moral balancing before.

For those unfamiliar with the concept, moral balancing is the idea that people will, when they have recently acted in a way they consider moral, allow themselves more leeway in behaving immorally. We all do it, we even apply this to other people seeing their bad behavior as more acceptable if they have recently done something we see as good.

Shinji's constant moaning makes his terribleness come across as him saying to himself, "you know what, I deserve to do what I want after all I'm so put upon." Not as his mind cracking under the pressure. Of course that could just be the corollary to moral balancing that states if someone is observed to be immoral you are less likely to accept immoral behavior from them. Making Shingi's extra terribleness later compound with his just general terribleness.

Either way he didn't really start out as a good kid in a bad situation, if he had then, yeah, his initial period of whining and bemoaning how horrible everyone was for wanting him to fight to stop the end of the world is more or less understandable. But that initial period never really ended.

Anyway, we're beginning to bury the actual topic under talk about the trash of the anime world. And I do want to mention the Black Buttler's first season is really good, the second is... kind of pointless. Also, read the Manga it's better.

I do also need to amend an earlier statement, you cannot actually watch the whole dub of funimation's shows on their website they expect you to pay like eight bucks for that privilege and frankly I want to support the industry and all but I could get netflix for that much Funimation and they have more than just your properties. So after that initial viewing of the shows from the dub company I personally think you're in the clear to do whatever you've gotta do since clearly funimation doesn't want you to view their product on their site and therefore funnel them money instead of going to a third party site that will give them nothing.